Wednesday, October 10, 2012

Today's links


  • From Ad Orientem: how Romney hijacked four Ron Paul delegations.
  • Sailer at Takimag: quantity vs. quality births.
  • From truthout: how Netanyahu’s ‘bomb Iran’ ploy failed. If Obama’s really ‘not pro-Israel enough’ as I understand many Republicans think, good. I still won’t vote for him. Never did.
  • From the Anti-Gnostic: bubble theology. Mostly about Eastern Orthodoxy from a convert’s POV. My guesses are more like, I imagine, if I recall rightly, Owen White’s, which is not surprising here. They could become extinct in America in a couple of generations or, likely in my opinion, remain but be even smaller, and remaining mainly ethnic (not necessarily bad; Greek and Slavic immigration will probably keep them going), like the similar recent history (exacerbated by liberal mainline decline) of the old Dutch Reformed Church in America (Robert Schuller’s church), whose numbers I think are in freefall. Ditto the Slavic Greek Catholics (plus their problem of assimilation into the Novus Ordo; unlike the Russians they don’t seem to benefit from post-Soviet immigration). A thought regarding being ‘soft’: it’s some churchmen’s (priests) job to exhort you to improve, but is the way of the church in the long run to be a small, perfectionistic cult like many trads, evangelicals and convertodox, or a more easygoing (strict rules but lightly enforced) big tent in which there’s room to grow in holiness, like the Catholic experience in America before the council, or the Orthodox one in Greece and Russia?

8 comments:

  1. I am grimly optimistic for Orthodoxy in the US in the sense that I believe the Church will survive because the US will not.

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    1. But the one-true-church claim only means it will be on earth to the end, not remain in any one place on it. St Augustine's home in North Africa, and Syria, are now the stomping grounds of Mohammed.

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  2. The scenario I see playing out is not a Mohammedan conquest but an eventual break-up into more integral nations as the centralized State goes bankrupt. The US and its novus ordum seclorum discourage faithful practice, which is why groups like the Amish and Hasidim withdraw from it as far as they are allowed. As the NOS declines, the Protestant sects which cast their lot with the NOS (actually, which helped found it) will decline as well. I expect both the Romans and the Orthodox will still be around to continue the bickering.

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  3. "to continue the bickering"

    Well, at least we will continue the tradition! LOL

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  4. "unlike the Russians they don’t seem to benefit from post-Soviet immigration"
    You apparently don't have a lot of Ukrainians where you live!
    Love the blog!

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    1. Thanks. Philadelphia has a Ukrainian Catholic cathedral but you're right, there are not a lot of Ukrainian Catholics here compared to the rest of Pennsylvania. There used to be a few more. The first Eastern Slavs I knew were WWII refugee Ukrainian Catholics who settled here.

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    2. Very different here in Chicago (and Toronto). We have a huge Ukie population that's about 80% 1st-gen immigrant. Plus the demographics skew western Ukrainian so they are also disproportionately Catholic compared to the general Ukie population.

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  5. I've been to Chicago. So many of them are post-Soviet immigrants? I think their immigration, certainly right after WWII, was always mostly western from old Polish Galicia so yes, disproportionately Catholic and non-Russian, liking to give the impression their whole country was like that (the west is the home base not only of Ukrainian Catholicism but Ukrainianism politically and linguistically), unlike the rest of the Ukraine, about which common knowledge is right: Russian and, pre-Soviet, Orthodox, now mostly unchurched but with a churchgoing Orthodox minority like Russia proper. By the way the story of the Ukrainian Catholic Church's survival in Galicia underground under Soviet rule is heroic. (History lesson for other readers: for a while after the Ukrainian Catholic Church started in 1596, it had most of the Ukraine including Kiev, and Byelorussia too. Russian expansion and yes, persecution in later centuries ended that. That didn't affect Galicia because Austria and then Poland owned it until the USSR stole it in WWII. Most Ukrainians have been Russian as long as whites have lived in most of North America.)

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