Thursday, October 16, 2014

Blaming the Uniates again, and more

12 comments:

  1. I wish that they would give the "Uniatism meme" a break. There was a Greek Orthodox metropolitan in Australia some years (perhaps a decade) ago who had the audacity and the honesty to demand that Rome suppress the "uniate" churches, and instruct their members either to become Orthodox (if their primary allegiance is to the Byzantine tradition) or Latin Catholics (if their primary allegiance is to communion with Rome). I don't know whether Metropolitan Hilarion would agree with that demand, but I do get weary of many Orthodox ascribing to the Balamand Agreement a degree of authority which it does not possess (and IIRC some Eastern Catholic bishops criticized it from the get-go, and they might just as well have criticized those Roman ecumaniacs who seem in conducting such discussions with the Orthodox to regard the "uniates" as helots whom they need not consult on such matters, and of whom they can dispose as they see fit).

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    1. I do get weary of many Orthodox ascribing to the Balamand Agreement a degree of authority which it does not possess.

      Well, that's the Orthodox ecumenists' game: act all nice to our faces, then side with our liberals in misreading Vatican II (like Balamand), claiming we no longer teach we're the true church, so why don't we hand over the Uniates already to the one, holy, Byzantine, and apostolic church? (In Msgr. Hilarion's mind, the Russian empire.)

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    2. John, could not have said it better myself!

      Recently, on Chadwick's "Orthodox blowout" it was posted that the western rite in the Russian Church is still alive and well and that clergy are being ordained; can we say hypocrites? Of course, what they call a western rite is more along the lines of liturgical fantasyland.

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  2. Unbelievably rude. And calling the MP 'mother church' of Ukraine?!

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    1. I have no problem with the Ukraine being historically part of Russia, only with universality being conflated with Russianness.

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    2. Oh, historically having been part of Russia for sure, but calling the MP the mother church of Kiev...

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    3. Now I understand. It's like if American literature claimed to have created English lit.

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    4. I'm so using that line!

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  3. I don't have time to look it up to verify it, but didn't successive metropolitans of Kiev settle themselves, after the Mongol conquest, first in Vladimir (ca. 1290), then in Moscow (ca. 1325) - Isidore of Kiev who, along with Bessarion, was a great proponent of the union achieved at the Council of Florence, actually resided in Moscow. After Moscow achieved its own autocephalous metropolitan in 1460, C'ple erected a new Kievan metropolitanate, who seat was actually Vilno/Vilnius; and then, when this metropolitanate acceeded to the 1595 Union of Brest, some years later created yet another metropolitanate, this time actually seated in Kiev. It seems that there have been a number of ecclesiastical mothers, or step-mothers, to the Ukrainians.

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  4. From Gabriel: Let’s call Alfeyev’s statement what it is: a xenophobic ramble which might very well make our own Cardinal Walter Kasper proud. If that’s not enough, one can certainly enjoy guffawing at a churchman praising his confession’s “rich pastoral care for the family” as his native country continues to spiral into demographic suicide.

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  5. Got to give Msgr. Hilarion credit in a way: he had the balls to say all that to Patriarch Sviatoslav's and other Catholic bishops' faces. (But as their guest in Rome? Rude.) Then again I think Sviatoslav's a wuss, appealing to post-1789 Western liberalism (human rights, equality of religions) rather than the church's truth claims, and like Putin sizing up Obama, I'll bet that's Hilarion's read on him and the rest of our bishops. Hilarion knows that because of ecumenism they won't hit back. So maybe this display wasn't really bravery.

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    1. John, never, never underestimate the arrogance of the Russians.

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