Friday, January 13, 2017

Answering an Anglican


The Episcopalians, that goofy counterfeit Catholic church run by Masons.
Unlike, I suspect, most Anglicans today, I'm more or less at peace with the fact that historically we owe our distinctive existence to King Henry VIII.
Right; we disagree but I'll say it anyway. Henry didn't want to change the church other than getting an annulment he didn't deserve, and to the Anglicans' credit, for centuries their teaching on marriage was the same as ours, which is why as recently as 1936 a King had to abdicate. But with all due respect, Henry didn't force England into schism, and his churchmen later didn't literally very violently force heresy on England, so you could have nice music on Sunday mornings. If you really believe Cranmer's fanciful idea of the early Christians is true, then Anglicanism's for you; otherwise you're kidding yourself.

But as Thomas Day wrote, Episcopalians don't have American Catholics' pathological hatred of high-church liturgy. They're at least as liberal as the National "Catholic" Reporter but a good number of them worship like I do.

4 comments:

  1. The Achilles heel of Anglicanism is that it exists because of a Tyrant which murdered about 72000 to warp the Church into his personal plaything and pet poodle. It set the example for government control of the Church. Peter the Great after returning to Russia from living in England copied this by making the Russian Orthodox Church a department of the government. He abolished the Patriarchy. I recall a law he passed requiring priests to report any treason they heard in Confession. In the USA the Anglicans were set adrift by the Revolution. In our own time Communist China also has tried to domesticate and control the Church because its existence critiques the government. Modern governments use the law particularly "discrimination" legislation to neutralize the Church. Again it is about control. The secular government has its agenda of secularization. behind this is the policy of divide and conquer. Divide and control. Anglicanism as any Englishman knows is a government creation. It relies on nationalism, propaganda, social and government sanction to survive. The Anglican sect has mutated so much that your average Anglican has been disenfranchised and secularized. After all break the national Church away from the universal Church, Then let it mutate and divide. Then a Christian is confused and turns away from the local Church or is malformed by it. In the end there is no Faith left.

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    1. William Tighe11:56 pm

      "a Tyrant which murdered about 72000 to warp the Church into his personal plaything and pet poodle"

      A figure which has no foundation in reality. The best attempt to reckon up the number of people executed under Henry VIII for "treason," including rejection of the Royal Supremacy, and also including those executed after the Pilgrimage of Grace, comes to about 375. Contrast this with the ca. 950+ executed during and in the aftermath of the Rebellion of the Northern Earls and then Dacre's Revolt in 1569-70. Surprisingly, no one was executed under martial law during the Pilgrimage of Grace, save for one priest who, called to preach to the royal army assembling to suppress the Pilgrimage, exhorted the army to join the "rebels" and overthrow the king - and who was strung up immediately after his sermon. In 1569-70 martial law was used during and after the revolt to cow and terrorize the northerners.

      As to Peter the Great, the example he followed in his dealings with the Russian Orthodox Church follows much more closely the arrangements of the German and especially Scandinavian Lutheran churches, not the Church of England.

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    2. When I wrote this:

      "The best attempt to reckon up the number of people executed under Henry VIII for 'treason' including rejection of the Royal Supremacy, and also including those executed after the Pilgrimage of Grace, comes to about 375"

      I should have stated that these figures are for the years 1534 to 1541. I doubt that the total for Henry VIII's reign between 1509 and 1533 and 1541 to 1545 would have amounted to more than 50, if that.

      By contrast, about 2500 people were executed during and after the various rebellions in 1549 (the "Prayer-Book Rebellion" in Cornwall and Devon; various local uprisings in the Midlands; and "Ket's Rebellion" in Norfolk), while only 54 or 55 were executed in the aftermath of Wyatt's Rebellion in 1554. (Another instance of the clemency of "Good Queen Mary.")

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    3. Dr Tighe,

      Thank you for this honest assessment of some of the issues raised in Mr Fisher's posting.

      I have always been surprised at the amount of simply bigotry that seems to overtake even thinking and educated Roman Catholics when it comes to Henry VIII. I have actually heard Romans say that Henry wanted an annulment simply to marry a younger woman, forgetting that he was a King in the time that mistresses and illegitimate children were socially accepted, of whom Henry had quite a few. I actually one heard a priest state, in the pulpit, that it was Henry who suppressed the Mass and replaced it with the BCP!

      I also think that when one considers the, especially Spanish Inquisition, and the massacre of the Protestants in France, it would be better not to cast too many aspersions against the Church of England.

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