Tuesday, July 08, 2014

Church chat: I'm not that religious

I'm actually not that religious; just like Catholics 50 years ago, what religion I happen to have is non-Vatican II Roman.

So the SSPX cult and I aren't a perfect fit but in a pinch I'd go there.
Ha! I'm not that pious either. By modern standards I'm a fanatic but truthfully I would love to go to Mass once a month or so, communion maybe twice a year. I would rather be able to just kind of schlup along in a generally Christian culture without having to think about any of this.
I love going to Mass every week but don't go to Communion. Domine, non sum dignus. I'm not prepared, and God will not be mocked. Hoping I have a priest at checkout to keep me out of hell. I pray the rosary daily, my only prayer rule. If circumstances allowed I could get into a traditional form of the office again. Not the full Roman Breviary; that's too hard. The Monastic Diurnal in English or the Little Office.
What I would really like to do is live a kind of less promiscuous JFK type Catholicism, lots of presumed and assumed faith, deference to the institution, Latin Mass, but that's about it. That's what I like.
That's how I live. The only difference from '63 is I hop parish boundaries to get to it. Since the council f*cked things up. That and I go to Pope Benedict's Novus Ordo a few times a year (holy days of obligation, flea-market Sundays, vacation), which is like a liberal parish in the late '60s.

All the parishes here and in Jersey were "courtroomed" in the '70s. (Table with the "judges' chairs" on the predella of the real altar.)

My parish by choice is rare: went high-church about 10 years ago. It's like Anglo-Catholics doing the Tridentine Mass but Anglo-Catholics didn't start it there.
Anglicanism has never held any real allure to me. Filthy government takeover of the real Church.
Most born Catholics I've known feel the same way.

Being Catholic in America in the '70s and '80s SUCKED. I first went to a Catholic church in '80. My Episcopal church was better.
My experience was, it sucked. CCD was a joke when I was a teenager. Most of the kids were fooling around instead of being interested in studying the faith.
When I went it wasn't egregiously bad. The BAD stuff was when I went to a Catholic college, Villanova, a little Notre Dame wannabe. Open dissent.

Liturgy was crappy everywhere, even at good-hearted conservative parishes just doing what they were told.

In the '90s I tried to be Orthodox. What a crock: they think Byzantium IS the church.
Yes, Orthodoxy is not sufficient. Obviously another fakey-Church, but this one is actually still the Church. The only reason they aren't under Rome is secular power: Ottomans and Tsars. Otherwise, they'd be reunited with us.
Roissy may be my virtual wingman but he's not my Pope. He hates the church - thinks all priests are either betas/omegas or gay.
In my experience, about 75% of priests are queer, most of whom are sexually active. The rest are gamma-omegas, momma's-boys (and not in the good, Italian way), or traumatized asexuals. Most of them are not worth spit and are seriously f*cked-up men. I hate writing that, but it is true. It is a wonder that the Church survives with a queer/pervert/emotionally stunted clergy.
In years of doing religion I've met some social retards among the Catholic priesthood.

Around the Sixties and into the '70s it was a perfect place for queers to hide out and party. They got to be respected by their family and community and nobody questioned why they weren't married.

John XXIII was hip so he told religious orders to weed them out.

Sedevacantism CAN happen. It hasn't.

IF this clown tries to change our teaching on divorce and remarriage ex cathedra, the See of Peter will be vacant. But he won't. You'll just see more abuse of annulments, keeping the letter of our doctrine but selling out in practice.

Maybe it's a wake-up call to Novus Ordo neocons, who'd fallen into Pope worship since without the old Mass they had no other identity besides pro-life. We don't think he's ipso facto a saint. He's actually not that important.

In the '80s if you pointed out the parish was liberal Protestant they'd say "Why are you leaving the church?" Their stupid answer to trads was to tell them to give up their "embarrassing steerage Catholicism" and turn charismatic. Medjugorje, the great white hope of the church. Not.
Simple fact is, Catholicism was basically perfected in form before V2. Low Mass, Thomistic philosophy, not hyper-pious but not secularized either, intent on transforming culture ("Going My Way," "Bells of St. Mary's"), etc. V2 broke all that. It was nuts.
I have zero conscience problems with Pope Benedict's Novus but go farther than the official church wants to hear: the old Mass is superior.


  1. From Facebook:

    Well, a part of me finds that attractive too, but shouldn't one aim a little higher? The almost-lowest-common-denominator just before the Council deserves to live, but only as a concession, not a standard.

    Think of it like this. You can have a culture of barely observant Catholicism as you describe only when there is a strong, fervent, and zealous minority carrying the load. We don't have that anymore. If you want a Church that has a place for "bad" Catholics today, you need to be a good Catholic, or at least strive to be.

    I hear you. "A strong, fervent, and zealous minority carrying the load. We don't have that anymore." We do. Besides the SSPX, etc., there are the trads and conservatives in the official church such as at my parish by choice, which is a magnet for such. Couples in their 30s with three or more children going out of their way to go there. The true church: "The Catholic Church: here comes everybody." The place for Bad Catholics to come home to. I've had a glimpse of that at Christmas Midnight Mass with the SSPX; too often the trad movement "off the reservation" can become a prideful purity cult that thinks it's the strong, fervent, and zealous remnant but has become a self-selected sect with the trappings of the church, not the church. I'm grateful for the good that the movement has done - we have our Mass because of Lefebvre, who should be canonized and Fellay created a cardinal. But I'm aware of its faults, and while it's an option for me, it would take a lot to move me there: if the official church took our Mass away again (nah - I'd just go to the early Low Mass [no funny business, just read the book, Father - an orthodox Catholic mainstay since the council] that's Pope Benedict's Novus, or go to the Greek Catholics), if it undid Pope Benedict's epic reform of English Novus Ordo (nah - I'd do the Greek Catholic option), and likely if a Pope tried to change our teaching on divorce and remarriage ex cathedra, in which case the See of Peter would become vacant.

  2. Amen. One of the profoundest reflections on the Church today I've read, almost my thoughts exactly. Hang in there; I imagine there are many more of us out there. God bless.

  3. John, please don't take this the wrong way. I was a waaaay worse sinner than you. Even had an abortion. Not making this up.

    But, for goodness sakes, if it's possible, marry that girl. Life is exponentially better when you can receive Communion.

    Don't mean to be a buttinski, but been there. No one was more of a mess than I was.

    For Donna: "Marry the man today, rather than sigh in sorrow. Marry the man today...and change his ways tomorrow." From THE greatest American musical, bar none. (Yeah, I know, what about West Side Story? It's more opera than musical. Guys and Dolls is so quintessentially American...and it is a musical comedy, not a Shakespearian tragedy set to music.)

    1. And to u diane thanks for the nice comment to me and john. Yes u are right saying he should marry me and I do wanna marry him as well. And I know u were telling it like it is here and that's all good. And I now he a very good man and he has a good heart thats why I wanna marry him.


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