Saturday, August 09, 2014

The Ukrainian Catholic Church rallies for war


  1. Hmm...Russian Orthodoxy isn't part of the Universal Church? Oh, right, because she isn't under the Bishop of Rome like the Uniates. Too bad none of the early councils said anyone had to be. State puppets, you say? If you want an example of real state puppetry, look no further than how in the 11th c. the Frankish emperor pressured the Pope to insert the Filioque into the creed. Something the Popes before him were against, namely Popes Hadrian and Leo III.

    1. Clever sophistry. From the classic Anglicans to the Abbé Guettée, same old. Plausible cases against the Pope, except I have no reason to build a plausible case against him: he defends the apostolic faith. Florence has explained the filioque, and the church's official Greek version of the Creed still doesn't have the insertion.

      You could build a logical argument, based on a premise of faith, that the planet Uranus is made of green cheese.

      In every age since Christ, among all men in all conditions and all cultures, the Catholic Church simply is.

      Remember, Orthodoxy exists because of Tsars and Sultans. Its entire reason for being is to hate the West. Sad. The Council of Florence solved the Schism. Orthodoxy really only dates from after that point. Once the Schism was healed, the petty princes and the Ottoman sultans got to work. Once Byzantium fell, the tsars realized the benefits of a non-papal church they could control. And thus, Orthodoxy is born and nurtured.

  2. First of all, Florence's explanation of the Filioque was incorrect and contrary to both the Greek and Latin Patristics. Instead of saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, Pope Eugene IV proclaimed that both Father and Son are equally causes of the Spirit, which is wrong. The few Greek bishops that were there signed onto Florence out of fear of the Turks and compromised the Orthodox faith and were therefore treated badly by everyone when they returned home. The bishops themselves knew that they had sold out. The union of Florence was a false one. Don't say that Orthodoxy has only existed since then. That's simply not true.

    Also, to say that in every age since Christ, the Roman Catholic Church simply is, is false. By the 11th C. the Church of Rome was controlled by the Frankish empire, and the Filioque was used by Charlamagne back in the 8th C. to drive a wedge between the western and eastern churches. So by the Franks taking control of the papacy the were able to get the Filioque in the Latin creed and a schism was a result, just like Charlamagne had wanted. And the Latin church has been changing ever since then.

    The Pope doesn't defend the apostolic faith when he states that it is absolutely necessary for salvation to submit to the Roman Pontiff, as Bonafice VIII proclaimed, or when Pius IX said, "I am the way, the truth, and and the life, whoever is with me is in the church, whoever is not with me is outside the church..." Such statements by popes are both heretical and blasphemous and Orthodoxy has every good reason to not be in communion with Rome.

    This isn't sophistry, my friend, just the historical record as I see it.

    1. You're looking for a reason to be in schism; my last comment's point is that you can find one. I don't feel the need.

      As a former blogger put it, if God meant to limit the true church to dhimmitude or tsardom (and self-hating Western converts), vs. universality (not to be confused with universalism), then he must be one sick f*ck; he must really hate humanity.

    2. ***Pius IX said, "I am the way, the truth, and and the life...'***

      This may be the funniest thing I've read this week. Or, rather, it would be funny if it weren't so sick and twisted.

      Yeah, Catholic popes are always claiming to be the Way, the Truth,and the Life. Happens all the time. All the history books record it.

      Thank God most Orthodox are not as ignorant and bigoted as this dude.

    3. Diane, actually Pope Pius IX did say that in 1866. Perhaps you should do a little research before you throw insults at people. Who's ignorant? I agree with you, though. It is sick and twisted.

    4. Give a reference, then, if you can.

    5. Source: History of the Christian Church, by Henry Charles Sheldon.
      It is also mentioned in The Papacy, by Abbé Guettee, who quotes him saying, "I am the Church."
      I also watched a debate on YouTube between Fr. Mitch Pacwa and a Protestant theologian and he quoted Pope Pius IX saying that and Fr. Pacwa didn't deny that he said such thing.


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