Saturday, February 18, 2017

"The Pope was the first Protestant." False.

History says Catholics are the Protestants.
Here's why I don't buy that. There is but one Christian faith: God, Christ, the Trinity, the Mother of God, the hypostatic union, bishops, the Mass, and the option of using images. Protestants deny part of that; Catholicism never has. Second, Jesus said, "Teach all nations." Of all the ancient, venerable apostolic churches claiming to be the Catholic Church, only the actual Catholic Church under Rome has fulfilled his Great Commission. A God who would damn Western Europe, even though it holds the same faith as the East (see my list above), because it was outside the Byzantine sphere of influence is a God I want nothing to do with. God obviously never intended his church to be as relatively small and narrow as the Byzantine Orthodox. The Old Catholics claimed to be the true Roman Catholic Church vs. the Vatican's papal infallibility, but they're a little sect now and one that has turned liberal. The true Catholic Church is what it has always been. Finally, on divorce and remarriage the Orthodox long ago gave up the faith and logic, sanctifying adultery "for pastoral reasons," and lately have sold out on contraception.

The flip side is wrong too:
The Orthodox are Protestants.
Even I don't go that far. Because Catholicism doesn't. All of their defined doctrine is the first seven councils of ours (that and the Vincentian canon pretty much give you Catholicism), so unlike Protestant doctrines it's all true. They still have bishops and the Mass even though those clergy don't normally have the church's authority (they would in an emergency like defrocked Catholic clergy); valid but illicit. Orthodoxy is a collection of folk Catholicisms that got estranged from the church; the more obnoxious of them think they're a completely different religion and we're frauds. If it were Protestant, I wouldn't tip my hat or cross myself going past their churches, have antique Russian icons, or use their prayers.


  1. "God obviously never intended his church to be as relatively small and narrow as the Byzantine Orthodox. "

    It must be great to know God's obvious intentions. But I remember reading something about the narrow path, many called and few chosen, etc.

    Another might say "God obviously never intended His church to be as relatively large, variegated, and broad as the Roman Catholic." But we can't really know His intentions; we should simply do our best until He comes. Then, maybe we can compare notes.

    1. But I remember reading something about the narrow path, many called and few chosen, etc.

      Not the same as worshipping a culture, no matter how good the culture is.

  2. God never intended His Church to be large and variegated?? So much for: "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY creature." And yeah, I guess that mustard seed was supposed to remain a seed, too.

    1. Diane, where have you been? I have really missed your sometimes caustic, but always to the point, comments!

  3. I would like to say that I am shocked, or that Deacon Nicolas's comment was meant as a joke, but in all probability, he is indeed being serious. Many Byzantine Orthodox do indeed believe that Holy Scripture interprets the concept of "narrow path" as meaning that we must all trash our own ancient, apostolic traditions and adopt the tradition of imperial Byzantium; that indeed, outside of a single ethno-tradition, there is no salvation.

    Clement of Alexandria stated that "[t]he way of Truth is one. But into it, as into a perennial river, streams flow from all sides"; unfortunately in modern Byzantine Orthodoxy, the stain of phyletism is so pervasive that seeing the Church beyond a single culture has become impossible. And one must accept that the heresy of phyletism is one of the heart and not the intellect, making even a simple attempt to point out its impact on the whole of the Byzantine Church, intellectually impossible.

    One should also mention that they are not only opposed to the western tradition, when it was in their power they attempted to destroy all eastern traditions as well, including the Coptic and Syriac replacing these ancient traditions with those of imperial Byzantium.


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